“[Guys On Steroids] aren’t people that are very fun to have sex with”

Colby Keller and Dale Cooper talk scene rates, condoms, exclusive contracts, and why they don’t like fucking guys who take steroids.

Here are some excerpts from their very good, very wide-ranging joint interview with Indypendent Reader.


On exclusive studio contracts:

IndyReader: So some people take on a contract with a particular company?

Dale Cooper: Yes, that’s what I was going to say, even then that is almost nothing more than you’re obligated to perform a certain amount of scenes and get paid a certain amount.

Colby Keller: I’ve heard of other types of contracts, but typically, it’s an exclusive contract so you can only work with one company and they pay you a certain number…

Dale Cooper: It’s nothing like workplace protection.

Colby Keller: It really actually protects the company more because it protects your image. They don’t want you to be overexposed.

On scene rates:

Colby Keller: So the porn world is hurting and everybody, you know, people are paying less in actual money than they did ten years ago. This happened to me very recently, one company in particular that I had a very long working relationship with, probably five, seven years ago. They paid me a certain rate, which was low at the time that they were paying it,  I’ve been paid double from other companies, to put into perspective how much they were paying — but they were also the top mainstream DVD-releasing company. They paid me a set rate. Came back at me recently and wanted me to do a scene with them paying me a couple of hundred dollars less than what this established rate was that I had with them before, of course I don’t have a long term contract with them. They were also bought out by a major distribution company which is primarily straight-owned. Straight companies pay their models a lot less. I think part of the, you know, what do you call that when companies merge? A merger, oh acquisitions. You know, the workers actually suffer a little bit. This is also saving them money because the company wasn’t doing too well. I came back at them and I’m like, “No, actually, this is my set rate, you paid it to me in the past, this is what I charge other companies, you can pay me this.”

They really, desperately wanted me for this scene, and the director went way out of his way (or at least claimed) to try to get me more work, and they basically came at me with an exclusive contract without exclusivity. But they wouldn’t pay me any more money per scene. And to kind of sweeten the deal, they came at me and they’re like, “Oh we have this affiliates program.” Which every porn company has, I mean you could start a blog and if you link to a porn site you get half of the memberships or whatever  that someone coming through that blog spends.  I’ve done this before, never made a lot of money with it. So they come back at me saying, “Oh you’ll make thousands of dollars!” And I’m like, “I’m already in your affiliates program.”(laughs) “And like this isn’t a special thing, you’re just doing for me, like anyone could do this. And really all I’m asking is that you pay me more money OR pay me the amount of money you want to pay me but instead of three fuck positions, we’re gonna do two. I’m compromising there. You’re probably going to get the same amount of work out of me, cause I know how it’s gonna be, like you’re just gonna grind those two scenes out but I’m giving you this out, you save face, I save face, we have a deal.”

Wouldn’t do it.

On condoms in porn, and steroids in porn:

Dale Cooper: …I feel like at least for me personally, the problem isn’t that we have porn that does not show the practice of safer sex and it is getting out there. The problem is that we make porn this privileged site of, when it comes to sexual education, and not like Hollywood or the advertising industry, or all these other places where sex is incredibly prolific and important and part of the flows of capital, just as much as in porn. But porn is the one that we regulate. Porn is the one area of this business that we are scandalized by, that we secretly titter about in the dark at our computers, that we try to make these Measure B regulations on and things of that nature. We do not allow, largely as a society, to accept that sex is such a huge force in all of our lives, that there are other venues through which we can discuss these really important things. And yes, it is unfortunate now that porn has such a disproportionate effect on the sex lives of its viewers, because we don’t allow any other…like porn, sex is still taboo, even in the 21st century, that we don’t allow other venues for us to expand on that narrative whatsoever.

Colby Keller: The condom thing about gay porn is fascinating to me because it is an instance where, and you know these companies did this voluntarily, they’re selling a product that’s about desire, right? And fantasy. And yet, there’s an aspect of that that isn’t either of those things. It’s propaganda to have this type of sex, this safe sex that will save your life. And it’s inserted into every scene to really, because they know that the product that they’re making will impact the way people will have sex in their personal lives. And yet, other aspects of the way that they create that product don’t take that into consideration. Like they might have these hypertrophied giant steroided bodies that are not healthy for anybody in that situation! And not realistic. Quite personally, those aren’t people that are very fun to have sex with, ‘cause their bodies don’t move very well by and large. Personal point. But so somehow the business gives permission to do that, but then it’s also selling us this moral message too. I think that’s an inconsistency in the product that they’re making.

There’s a lot more in the full interview.

[image via CockyBoys]

 

 

20 thoughts on ““[Guys On Steroids] aren’t people that are very fun to have sex with””

  1. ‘It’s propaganda to have this type of sex, this safe sex that will save your life”

    Are you fucking kidding me?

    1. Poorly stated, but if you leave off the last phrase, porn is, in fact, propaganda within the basic definition of the word. True or not, mainstream gay porn has been about convincing gay men to have only safer sex. The fundamental assumption since the late eighties has been that “everybody” (regardless of orientation) stopped barebacking, which is patently untrue; many gay men never stopped. Straight porn has been more heavily reliant on HIV screening because they know damn well that condoms wreck the fantasy for their consumers and that propagandizing safer sex has never worked with straight men because AIDS has always been perceived as a “gay disease.”

      I can only speak for myself, but I’ve never met anyone who truly fantasizes about sex with condoms. Sex with latex, certainly, but never specifically with condoms. While it comes from a well-meaning place, safer-sex porn is a conscious attempt at behavioral modification. Furthermore, it is in no way indicative of the kinds of sex that the participants engage in privately, right? In fact, gay porn producers appear to be less than concerned with their taloets’ off-screen behavior. I seem to recall Michael Lucas at one point asserting that he (as his company) would not hire anyone who’d ever shot scenes for bareback studios (shot to hell with Tyler Saint and Marc Dylan, among others) and would never hire gay-for-pay (shot to hell with Paddy O’Brian, if not sooner).

      That’s more an argument about integrity, I guess, but it’s certainly proof that “principles” mean less that cash in many ways, and it more than amply shows a lack of concern for what goes on in the stars’ lives apart from Lucas Entertainment sets.

      So ultimately, inasmuch as condom-only gay porn is an attempt to model “appropriate” sexual behavior to porn consumers, yes, safer-sex porn is well-intended propaganda, but propaganda nonetheless.

  2. I love Colby. Gotten better-looking with age, and still a big shooter. No tattoos. And smart! My ideal lover.

  3. i wish they would have asked what their close friends or families think about them doing porn. i think thats such an interesting question, i knew porn stars whose families thought it was a hoot and others threw up..

    1. I would think a majority would feel that if they accept that their child is gay, then they would be more capable of accepting they did porn. And if they are older men, men of some means, then they don’t require porn as a way to make a living-then I think they wouldn’t care…and even at that point why tell them?

  4. I’ve come around to liking Dale more and more, and Colby less every time they say something.

    I used to like Colby, but as I’ve gotten to read his blog and works, my impression has gone down. I think he needs to retire!

    1. Colby Keller is still one of my favorites. Why does he need to retire? If your tastes have changed and you are no longer a Colby fan, just don’t watch him.

    2. Yeah, I agree. And I think its because Colby Keller likes to fashion himself as a critical thinker/intellectual but he’s pretty caught up in some rigid, mainstream paradigms of thought that he just thinks are innovative ways of thinking. Clearly he’s outwitted/outmatched intellectually by Dale Cooper, who pulls one of the best near-Foucauldian and slightly Marxist level analysis of the porn industry off the top of his head. Comparing the two side by side, Colby comes off like a dimwit and it’s just really unattractive.

      1. I do not believe your analysis is completely fair to Mr. Keller. I have grown to be truly taken by Dale Cooper, slight build and all, but his examination of the power politics at play between an essentially unskilled labor force in porn performers and the capitalist owners of the production companies that hire them could hardly be considered new or “off the top of his head”. As he admitted in the article he has been studying and thinking about those particular dynamics in earnest for quite some time.

        To be fair, Mr. Keller also raised some very fine points that even Mr. Cooper acknowledged were truly profound. One of those points was Mr. Keller’s particularly perceptive observation of the inherent hypocrisy and or mixed moral message associated with certain companies maintaining a strict pro-condom stance while employing performers that are clearly abusing steroids. Is unsafe sex in the gay community more of a problem than poor body image? That thoughtful contribution was to me one of the more provocative points made in the entire interview. I think that Mr. Keller is wonderfully intelligent, maybe not as intelligent as Mr. Cooper (we may never know that), but when the two of them are flexing some serious grey matter in the service of worthwhile ideas comparisons like that seem rather misplaced. I enjoyed the interview and both of their responses, it was a fine read.

        1. Alright! Alright! ALRIGHT! Keller doesn’t need to retire! No need to fight.

          I don’t like some of Colby’s points, as I think they are too oriented in making porn “art.” Which is an attempt at making Porn to seem more “legit” by reducing prostitution as a lesser form of sex work. I do agree on the morality points of body fascism in porn. However, considering this is the “fantasy” ideal– the body has to be perfect in his form! We do not see the process by which the body functions, queefing or farting(unless it is a fetish video)… Besides, I don’t see either Colby or Dale working with chubby or bear partners; So I’m not so sure if they are really just saying this to sound smart, or if they really believe what they are saying! I tend to think they might be somewhat pretentious, as they haven’t practiced what they preached and taken on the lesser desired bodily forms.

          Both should do a three way with an obese man. Probably that guy in the photograph used as an example of trolling, he needs it, and apparently Prostitution is a lesser form of sex work :D

          I think Prostitutes are better people than porn stars, because porn stars fall under the body fascism that exists, and prostitutes actually help people-who are victims of this fascism: handicapped, elderly, fat. All have a sexuality that is often ignored or looked at in repulsion.

          Dale and Colby have fallen victim to an antiquated way of thinking from the sexual revolution. Porn is no longer a revolutionary act. There are no porno theaters, and public consumption is done discretely. It is a product of private consumption, where most consumers use laptops to jerk off. It is this reason I do not believe porn can ever be art-because it doesn’t inspire people to want to have sex, but rather manage their sexualities in private usually alone. Porn is a manifestation of status quo, where human interaction is minimized and reduced to online interaction. We are using technology to avoid each other. We have sex toys and other paraphernalia like fleshjacks and vibrators to use, instead of finding a partner to have sex with. And when we do want to get off with a human being, we use websites that are strictly for sex contact only. We have apps that connect us to people who only fit our “types,” and click ignore for those who do not. We have people use webcamming to mutually masturbate rather than meet.

          We are turning into Pandas. Limited contact as much as possible. And when we want it, we want it on certain terms.

          I found it interesting that Dale admitted to being Shy.

    1. ALL THEY NEED TO DO IS LAY ON ALL FOURS AND OPEN THEIR HOLES IT S NOT THAT HARD.

      No roid dude should ever top

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